Thank you for the excellent conversation in The Relay. The consensus seems to be that it is righteous for artists and podcasters to pull their material from Spotify as a form of protest against the kinds of programming the streaming platform subsidizes (i.e.—not provides but pays for).
I want to elaborate on a couple of things that your comments helped clarify for me. As David Crosby, of Crosby, Stills, and Nash, said in a recent interview, his decision to pull his material from Spotify isn’t about Joe Rogan—it’s about the streaming service that’s financing and disseminating Rogan’s racism and COVID disinformation. (I can’t find the link to the interview but will post it when I do.)
If the United States government tried to shut down Rogan’s program, I would be one of the first in line to protest that decision—and the ACLU would immediately defend Rogan and his right as an American citizen to say despicable things. But that’s not what’s happening here. Rogan chooses what he wants to say, Spotify chooses to give him a platform and pay him enormous sums of money, and the rest of choose to support that, remain neutral, or leave in protest.
Jon Stewart weighed in on the controversy and suggested the reaction to Spotify and Rogan’s content was overblown. “Don’t leave, don’t abandon, don’t censor – engage,” he said. There is so much wrong with this I’m not sure where to start but it does remind me that Jon Stewart is not an ally (remember his 2010 Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear which was essentially an exercise in both-siderism). First of all, what exactly are we abandoning if we leave Spotify? There are many other streaming services that treat artists better than Spotify does. Second, I have no interest in engaging with the likes of Joe Rogan. Third, canceling my Spotify account or pulling my podcast isn’t censorship. To say otherwise is malicious nonsense and makes me wonder (again) who Stewart is pandering to. I can’t prevent Rogan from doing anything. Nobody’s trying to suppress his content, we simply don’t want to support it or the company that pays him too be a racist. Not too long ago the Republican Party would have said this is the free market at work.
Finally, I want to make it clear that I understand that 1) many artists do not have control over their music so therefore cannot make a unilateral decision to leave Spotify even if they wanted to and 2) some musicians and podcasters rely on the income they receive from Spotify and shouldn’t be expected to make a sacrifice that will make their lives more difficult. It’s one of the most dangerous things about these massive companies—they make themselves, in one way or another, indispensable to our lives. For example, I know a lot of people who revile Facebook and never use their personal accounts, but for business reasons they need the engagement or they need to be able to use Facebook ads.
The bottom line is we do the best we can when we can. And we stick together.
Now it’s time to vote for the one person you think did the most good this week. Please explain the reasons for your choice. I’ll post the results tomorrow evening at 8:15 p.m.
I have to nominate Col Alexander Vindman this week for filing a lawsuit against Jr, Rudy & White House staffers for their appealing mistreatment of a patriotic and heroic American
I disagree with her on everything but I think that Liz Cheney is fighting harder for our democracy than almost any other American and certainly she has more guts than most. I salute her
Going by what I'm seeing on Twitter, there are those who are hysterically insisting that 'choice' is censorship. Artists have chosen to walk away from Spotify. Nice one, I'm good with that. Who needs their art, at which they have all worked very hard, associated with a platform that allows an offensive racist ranter? But the cry is going up - 'Censorship is BAAAAAAD!' (Y'know, like a sheep...?) I choose NOT to eat MacDonalds food. I don't like it, it's bad for me and I don't like the deception this mega company engages in. So am I 'censoring' or 'cancelling' MacDonalds? It's getting very weird!
Good Human of the Week? Have to pick Mr Biden, I think. For not backing down from Putin the Putz.
I was absolutely thrilled when I saw that Col. Vindman filed a lawsuit against those involved, including Trump, for engaging in a conspiracy of witness intimidation. First, stepping up to speak the truth in the Impeachment trial, which he was warned not to do, & standing up yet again to a former president. His belief in America and its rule of law and for doing the right thing is to be commended. Now, THAT takes guts & he's my Good Human of the Week!
Well said, Mary! And lovely pic. My vote this week is also for Marc Elias and his team. They have been relentless in their legal efforts to combat voter suppression tactics in state after state. He's also been doing everything he can to make the case for federal voting rights legislation, and their Democracy Docket website, https://www.democracydocket.com/, and newsletter are very informative and explain the gravity of this issue very clearly. I'm not sure when they sleep, but I am very, very grateful for them.
I would like to give a shout out to both, Glenn Kirshner, and Farron Cousins for the reporting they have been doing for quite a few years now. They talk about how they feel about the crickets from the DOJ. Glenn, having been a prosecutor for over 30 years has a good sense into the workings of the DOJ, his former department. Even he is at a loss for the lack of anything newsworthy into our current absence of holding those accountable. I know justice moves slowly, but gee whiz, it would be nice to see something happening.
Regarding Spotify. In the 19thC, Oliver Wendell Holmes of the Supreme Ct. made it law that you cannot yell, FIRE, in a crowded theater w/o being prosecuted for it. Similarly, people Die when misinformation is promoted during a worldwide pandemic.
Personally painful though his actions are, leaving his career in limbo, Brian Flores , by filing his lawsuit this week, has finally torn open the threads of systemic insults that form much of the fabric of the National Football League. Coach Flores redefines the title, "A stand-up guy."
Jane Fonda, teaming with Greenpeace, starting off another year off environmental activism!! - I participated in her new round of ‘Fire Drill Fridays’ yesterday, 2/4/22. Jane has been an activist for social justice her entire adult life - sometimes to the detriment of her own acting career. Now she has truly taken on the charge of creating change in environment policy so we can slow global warming and preserve our planet. She went live weekly all during the start of the pandemic and she is back in 2022, hosting LIVE sessions on Fridays on social media …. Interviewing experts on various environmental topics. Interviewing scholars and celebrities alike, using her voice and experience and huge platform to advocate for better policy surrounding land preservation, green energy, green legislation - she is the living, breathing example of USING YOUR LIFE to change the world. She has developed a huge following. Gives out resource information. Cheers us on. Marches with us. She is passionate and knowledgeable and inspirational!!! I encourage this community to check out her next Fire Drill Friday event. Always free and open to all, virtual and safe during our ongoing pandemic.
Here is lineup to this week’s Fire Drill Friday - Please watch!!! :
Fire Drill Friday with Jane Fonda, Annie Leonard, and Folabi Olagbaju
Our cultural obsession with celebrity is deeply dangerous...it brought us a president famous for being famous. It brought us a podcast superstar who believes that he has no responsibility for anything said on his platform. It brought us a late night host who believes he is the arbiter of social norms. Artists have the right to choose the platforms that host their music. Listeners have the right to delete Spotify. Jon Stewart has the right to make uninformed statements. I have the right to ignore both Rogan and Stewart.
I vote for Alexander Vindman for his bravery in speaking up with his information knowingly putting himself in danger. In standing by his evidence others are encouraged to come forward and speak the truth that will make possible the hearing of sufficient evidence to proceed with the proper outcome.
North Carolina Supreme Court for striking down the redistricting map. They have until 2/18 to redraw the map. The court found the lines drawn gave a distinct advantage to republicans.
Dan Rather. He's articulate, kind, passionate, and doing a great job of explaining, teaching, tugging us toward a hopeful goal. Few of his age can match his workload.
Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman (Ret.) for still believing that "Here - right matters" and filing lawsuits against close aides and allies of the former administration. I'd like to see more people insist on accountability for the relentless harassment and threat-making practiced by that group.
Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger are my nominees for Good Human of the Week. They have been censured by the Retrumplicans for speaking the truth. Is there no end to this insanity?
I have to agree with Laegatha-Storm. HE has given Putin a run for his Billions- Good job Joe! And stop telling me about who I can support with MY dollars and time! I DECIDE WHAT I WANT TO SUPPORT! Not You or THEM!
Again, well said, Mary. And looking at the nominations for good person of the week, it does my heart good to see so many deserving names. I have to go for the woman who stood up to Gov. Youngkin as she is all of us.
Good Humans: Women. It's gotten virtually no notice, but to those who have been in the fight since it's introduction, the ERA (Equal Rights Amendment), that passed the Virginia legislature in 2020, is official, after a 2-year waiting period, as the 28th amendment to the U.S. Constitution as of January 27, 2022. Naturally, this doesn't come without controversy: the amendment has yet to be published--meaning, the recognition of women's equality under the law must be championed! https://www.eracoalition.org
Mayor of Kiev who says she will die for Ukraine and all the Ukrainian civilians who marched through the streets of Kiev today in protest of what seems like an inevitable Russian invasion.
Ai Weiwei - consistently pushing the envelope on human rights for China, for refugees, for freedom of expression all over the world. I'm reading his book, 1000 Years of Joys and Sorrows, right on the heals of reading Radical King edited by Cornel West. Ai Weiwei and MLK are overlapping in many ways. In the face of cruelty they both just keep pushing for what's right and for human dignity. He would be a wonderful interviewee.
I only want to offer Mike Pence as an honorable mention without casting any judgement of where he’s been for the last year. He spoke clearly in condemnation of Trumps intent to overthrow the the election.
Marc Elias is a relentless warrior in defense of democracy.
I vote for Marc Elias too because he and his legal team have done such heroic work saving our democracy. His victories in court are something to behold.
Wow! A few things...First, Jon Stewart did not say that leaving Spotify is censorship. He didn't urge people not to abandon Spotify. His point was that the tendency to demonize and shun anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't lead to civilized and productive discourse. So much easier to get on one's high horse and smugly label someone a racist or a sexist or white supremacist than to confront them and their ideas, holding yourself too pure to get down to their level. Wouldn't it be better to engage with the likes of Joe Rogan and expose his "ideology" for the superficial, crass, opportunistic drivel that it is than to simply take your marbles and go home? And the cheap shot about the Rally to Restore Sanity was extremely disappointing and, I think, beneath you. You're smart enough to understand what parody and irony are, aren't you? And have you forgotten that Stephen Colbert was there as well? He's been one of your biggest boosters, and I wouldn't be surprised if your publisher was delighted at the Colbert bump you got from your appearance on his show. Is he tarred with the same brush as Jon Stewart? Not an ally....whatever than means?
And now for something completely different...Good Human of the Week (only because there isn't a "Courageous Human of the Week" category): Fani Willis, Fulton County, Georgia DA. For obvious reasons.
Agree with those who support Marc Elias. He and his team continue to fight to protect voting rights and our democracy, and win. Thank god for him and them.
Mary Its True: "Monolithic" Companies intertwined together can control artists to not be able to express their views, and others would suffer from disconnection from Spotify from the size of their company etc Its Very Important to draw distinctions between what is possible for artists wealthy and strong enough within their own system to walk away from spotify vs Smaller Newer Entities That Cannot. Very Good Analysis of The Structure of Protests vs The Censorship Realities. I myself have created content, sold it, but now I must plot a bigger plot to include and share the secrets about creative music: Ive Learned, AND create access for more musical therapy, Sound Wave Editing, for more people, So I am intensely familiar with ALL THE BARRIERS around This Joe Rogan Issue. THANK YOU for saying succinctly what THE TRUTHs about Joe Rogan And Spotify really are, Bravo, Your Fan John Pillin
Do you suppose that Mike Pence and Chris Christie have opened the crack to get the right back to having a platform, ideas, and conservative ideals? That is a lot to ask. . .
I must express thanks to Marc Elias for working continuously to preserve the integrity of our upcoming elections; elections that Republicans are shamelessly working to corrupt.
Several issues about Joe Rogon– platforms such as Spotify and Facebook (and radio when Rush Limbaugh was on air) protect their financial interests, and in a democracy, have the right to free speech. The problem is that their popularity gives credence to topics discussed that are not in the public’s best interests. The critical thinking skills of listeners are sorely tested listening to the barrage of issues covered in a program (myself included). Another problem is our 21st c encounter with a pandemic which is clearly a public health problem, not a private medical one. Public health deals with deadly contagious diseases. Private health deals with those non-contagious diseases which do not endanger others. One has the luxury of choosing a cancer treatment, but not one in which millions have died world wide.
Good Human of the Week: Marc Elias for yet another victory for democracy, this time in North Carolina. A mighty fighter for good, this man.
I have to nominate Col Alexander Vindman this week for filing a lawsuit against Jr, Rudy & White House staffers for their appealing mistreatment of a patriotic and heroic American
I disagree with her on everything but I think that Liz Cheney is fighting harder for our democracy than almost any other American and certainly she has more guts than most. I salute her
This week I vote for this brave lady in Alexandria, Virginia for calling out her Gov Youngkin for not wearing a face mask!
https://twitter.com/news_mtorres/status/1489364161440231426?s=21
Going by what I'm seeing on Twitter, there are those who are hysterically insisting that 'choice' is censorship. Artists have chosen to walk away from Spotify. Nice one, I'm good with that. Who needs their art, at which they have all worked very hard, associated with a platform that allows an offensive racist ranter? But the cry is going up - 'Censorship is BAAAAAAD!' (Y'know, like a sheep...?) I choose NOT to eat MacDonalds food. I don't like it, it's bad for me and I don't like the deception this mega company engages in. So am I 'censoring' or 'cancelling' MacDonalds? It's getting very weird!
Good Human of the Week? Have to pick Mr Biden, I think. For not backing down from Putin the Putz.
My Good Human of the week is Marc Elias. His unwavering fight to protect our democracy is amazing. His key victories especially in NC made my week.
I was absolutely thrilled when I saw that Col. Vindman filed a lawsuit against those involved, including Trump, for engaging in a conspiracy of witness intimidation. First, stepping up to speak the truth in the Impeachment trial, which he was warned not to do, & standing up yet again to a former president. His belief in America and its rule of law and for doing the right thing is to be commended. Now, THAT takes guts & he's my Good Human of the Week!
Well said, Mary! And lovely pic. My vote this week is also for Marc Elias and his team. They have been relentless in their legal efforts to combat voter suppression tactics in state after state. He's also been doing everything he can to make the case for federal voting rights legislation, and their Democracy Docket website, https://www.democracydocket.com/, and newsletter are very informative and explain the gravity of this issue very clearly. I'm not sure when they sleep, but I am very, very grateful for them.
I would like to give a shout out to both, Glenn Kirshner, and Farron Cousins for the reporting they have been doing for quite a few years now. They talk about how they feel about the crickets from the DOJ. Glenn, having been a prosecutor for over 30 years has a good sense into the workings of the DOJ, his former department. Even he is at a loss for the lack of anything newsworthy into our current absence of holding those accountable. I know justice moves slowly, but gee whiz, it would be nice to see something happening.
Yes, Marc Elias!
Regarding Spotify. In the 19thC, Oliver Wendell Holmes of the Supreme Ct. made it law that you cannot yell, FIRE, in a crowded theater w/o being prosecuted for it. Similarly, people Die when misinformation is promoted during a worldwide pandemic.
Liz Cheney
She is one of the very few so- called -Republicans with a spine!
Personally painful though his actions are, leaving his career in limbo, Brian Flores , by filing his lawsuit this week, has finally torn open the threads of systemic insults that form much of the fabric of the National Football League. Coach Flores redefines the title, "A stand-up guy."
Jane Fonda - Good Human of the week!!
Jane Fonda, teaming with Greenpeace, starting off another year off environmental activism!! - I participated in her new round of ‘Fire Drill Fridays’ yesterday, 2/4/22. Jane has been an activist for social justice her entire adult life - sometimes to the detriment of her own acting career. Now she has truly taken on the charge of creating change in environment policy so we can slow global warming and preserve our planet. She went live weekly all during the start of the pandemic and she is back in 2022, hosting LIVE sessions on Fridays on social media …. Interviewing experts on various environmental topics. Interviewing scholars and celebrities alike, using her voice and experience and huge platform to advocate for better policy surrounding land preservation, green energy, green legislation - she is the living, breathing example of USING YOUR LIFE to change the world. She has developed a huge following. Gives out resource information. Cheers us on. Marches with us. She is passionate and knowledgeable and inspirational!!! I encourage this community to check out her next Fire Drill Friday event. Always free and open to all, virtual and safe during our ongoing pandemic.
Here is lineup to this week’s Fire Drill Friday - Please watch!!! :
Fire Drill Friday with Jane Fonda, Annie Leonard, and Folabi Olagbaju
https://facebook.com/events/s/fire-drill-friday-with-jane-fo/648038299805363/
Our cultural obsession with celebrity is deeply dangerous...it brought us a president famous for being famous. It brought us a podcast superstar who believes that he has no responsibility for anything said on his platform. It brought us a late night host who believes he is the arbiter of social norms. Artists have the right to choose the platforms that host their music. Listeners have the right to delete Spotify. Jon Stewart has the right to make uninformed statements. I have the right to ignore both Rogan and Stewart.
I vote for Alexander Vindman for his bravery in speaking up with his information knowingly putting himself in danger. In standing by his evidence others are encouraged to come forward and speak the truth that will make possible the hearing of sufficient evidence to proceed with the proper outcome.
Mary, is this the MSNBC interview with David Crosby?
https://www.msnbc.com/katy-tur/watch/david-crosby-on-spotify-we-don-t-feel-that-it-s-a-place-we-want-to-be-132382789883
North Carolina Supreme Court for striking down the redistricting map. They have until 2/18 to redraw the map. The court found the lines drawn gave a distinct advantage to republicans.
Good Human of the Week - Governor of Illinois J.B. Pritzker. He presented a budget that will give all of the people of Illinois a $1B tax cut.
Dan Rather. He's articulate, kind, passionate, and doing a great job of explaining, teaching, tugging us toward a hopeful goal. Few of his age can match his workload.
President Biden for standing up to Putin and Col.Vindman for his bravery and patriotism.
Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman (Ret.) for still believing that "Here - right matters" and filing lawsuits against close aides and allies of the former administration. I'd like to see more people insist on accountability for the relentless harassment and threat-making practiced by that group.
Joe Biden for the Buy American executive action and the pro-Union speech to Ironworkers.
Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger are my nominees for Good Human of the Week. They have been censured by the Retrumplicans for speaking the truth. Is there no end to this insanity?
I have to agree with Laegatha-Storm. HE has given Putin a run for his Billions- Good job Joe! And stop telling me about who I can support with MY dollars and time! I DECIDE WHAT I WANT TO SUPPORT! Not You or THEM!
Again, well said, Mary. And looking at the nominations for good person of the week, it does my heart good to see so many deserving names. I have to go for the woman who stood up to Gov. Youngkin as she is all of us.
Great article Mary. I agree with you with your stance on Spotify. Jamie Raskin still gets my vote as good human of the week. Also Matt Dowd.
Good Humans: Women. It's gotten virtually no notice, but to those who have been in the fight since it's introduction, the ERA (Equal Rights Amendment), that passed the Virginia legislature in 2020, is official, after a 2-year waiting period, as the 28th amendment to the U.S. Constitution as of January 27, 2022. Naturally, this doesn't come without controversy: the amendment has yet to be published--meaning, the recognition of women's equality under the law must be championed! https://www.eracoalition.org
Mayor of Kiev who says she will die for Ukraine and all the Ukrainian civilians who marched through the streets of Kiev today in protest of what seems like an inevitable Russian invasion.
Ai Weiwei - consistently pushing the envelope on human rights for China, for refugees, for freedom of expression all over the world. I'm reading his book, 1000 Years of Joys and Sorrows, right on the heals of reading Radical King edited by Cornel West. Ai Weiwei and MLK are overlapping in many ways. In the face of cruelty they both just keep pushing for what's right and for human dignity. He would be a wonderful interviewee.
I only want to offer Mike Pence as an honorable mention without casting any judgement of where he’s been for the last year. He spoke clearly in condemnation of Trumps intent to overthrow the the election.
Marc Elias is a relentless warrior in defense of democracy.
I vote for Marc Elias too because he and his legal team have done such heroic work saving our democracy. His victories in court are something to behold.
Wow! A few things...First, Jon Stewart did not say that leaving Spotify is censorship. He didn't urge people not to abandon Spotify. His point was that the tendency to demonize and shun anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't lead to civilized and productive discourse. So much easier to get on one's high horse and smugly label someone a racist or a sexist or white supremacist than to confront them and their ideas, holding yourself too pure to get down to their level. Wouldn't it be better to engage with the likes of Joe Rogan and expose his "ideology" for the superficial, crass, opportunistic drivel that it is than to simply take your marbles and go home? And the cheap shot about the Rally to Restore Sanity was extremely disappointing and, I think, beneath you. You're smart enough to understand what parody and irony are, aren't you? And have you forgotten that Stephen Colbert was there as well? He's been one of your biggest boosters, and I wouldn't be surprised if your publisher was delighted at the Colbert bump you got from your appearance on his show. Is he tarred with the same brush as Jon Stewart? Not an ally....whatever than means?
And now for something completely different...Good Human of the Week (only because there isn't a "Courageous Human of the Week" category): Fani Willis, Fulton County, Georgia DA. For obvious reasons.
Agree with those who support Marc Elias. He and his team continue to fight to protect voting rights and our democracy, and win. Thank god for him and them.
Mary Its True: "Monolithic" Companies intertwined together can control artists to not be able to express their views, and others would suffer from disconnection from Spotify from the size of their company etc Its Very Important to draw distinctions between what is possible for artists wealthy and strong enough within their own system to walk away from spotify vs Smaller Newer Entities That Cannot. Very Good Analysis of The Structure of Protests vs The Censorship Realities. I myself have created content, sold it, but now I must plot a bigger plot to include and share the secrets about creative music: Ive Learned, AND create access for more musical therapy, Sound Wave Editing, for more people, So I am intensely familiar with ALL THE BARRIERS around This Joe Rogan Issue. THANK YOU for saying succinctly what THE TRUTHs about Joe Rogan And Spotify really are, Bravo, Your Fan John Pillin
Please tell me if I am now posting on Mary L. Trump or SUBSTACK ? Thanks. James R. McClure.
Do you suppose that Mike Pence and Chris Christie have opened the crack to get the right back to having a platform, ideas, and conservative ideals? That is a lot to ask. . .
I must express thanks to Marc Elias for working continuously to preserve the integrity of our upcoming elections; elections that Republicans are shamelessly working to corrupt.
Well said Mary. Thank you!
Pence rejects the claim he could overturn the election. I never thought he’d say the words, “trump was wrong!”
I knew he thought it but never imagined he publicly say it!
Good on him!!!!!
Kindness goes a long way.
Several issues about Joe Rogon– platforms such as Spotify and Facebook (and radio when Rush Limbaugh was on air) protect their financial interests, and in a democracy, have the right to free speech. The problem is that their popularity gives credence to topics discussed that are not in the public’s best interests. The critical thinking skills of listeners are sorely tested listening to the barrage of issues covered in a program (myself included). Another problem is our 21st c encounter with a pandemic which is clearly a public health problem, not a private medical one. Public health deals with deadly contagious diseases. Private health deals with those non-contagious diseases which do not endanger others. One has the luxury of choosing a cancer treatment, but not one in which millions have died world wide.